mulesuk

O.K. let's hear what tack you use.
I'll start with Sarah-lee's tack.
When I first started riding her I walked out for a year with what I can only describe as an adult "Cub" Saddle

I learnt that it was a Test model made by Thorowgood for disabled Adults and it had an "A" on the flap and I finally mounted her and dropped in to a friend where this photo was taken.....it was stolen the next day

This is the bit I used.The bridle is made by Libby
Having lost her saddle I bought a "Trooper" out of Henly Horse Sales for £18! (Must've caught them on a bad day)

It's a great saddle but on my first "Fun Ride" I heard there was a steep hill so decided to try a crupper.She told me exactly what she thought of that!So I left it with the Ride Marshel.
The steep hill turned out to be a steep drop and the saddle began to undress itself round her neck so she stood sideways on and told me to get off and rectify the matter!!!!
At the end of the ride I decided something had to be done so another BM Member,Triona made me some webbing Breeching which I tested on Bredon hill and it worked!
It worked so well that I could loosen the girth and still mount from the ground.

Ah this was one of the things that really interested me when i bought Treacle and I'm not sure we've got to the bottom of it yet.

She has been in a myler comfort snaffle and seems to like it but didn't convince me she would have much brakes so I have got a myler combination bit to try when she comes back into work in the spring.

Saddle wise - a half tree exercise saddle fits her well but I hate it! Then we moved onto a barefoot treeless ocean blue (oh yes it is tacky!!) saddle - again mule moves well in it but it does not feel secure at all and I can't jump in it (plus I look like a tree hugger!!) So now she has a very cheap, very wide conventional english saddle which isn't brilliant if truth be told and will be getting replaced in the spring. I think I'll probably look at the native pony saddles because she is round and I think I need breeching as everything does tend to slide up her neck. But I've learnt - my next mule will have withers!!

O.k here we have the blue saddle



and current saddle here - (having already moved forward...)

I am rapidly realising why mule owners are obsessed about saddles...

Before Moon was backed, trying to do everyone quite right, we got a western saddle fitted from bare tree - said tree looked really quite a marvellous fit, and so did the actual saddle built on that tree. Easy peasy, we thought. Of course we couldn't actually try it, as she wasn't backed.

So, a few weeks later, lots and lots of groundwork, she's a bit muscled up, backed and loathed her new saddle. Perfectly happy in trainers' work saddle (Big Horn synthetic on full QH bars) although we knew it was too wide, she seemed comfy, so just padded up well.

Chiropracter asked to see her not because we suspected problems, but because I wanted her to get used to the "back man", and learn that sometimes someone will come and poke and prod and stretch and may even pull your tail.... he found several tight areas, some in the neck and well in front of withers presumably not saddle related, but a bit tight at the back of the saddle area and also tight in one hip.

Anyway four weeks on, she's now in a Barefoot treeless, and chiropractier checked again a few days ago - all is well.

Saddle stability on her is reasonable, but not perfect - don't think there is a rear cinch capability - and she really doesn't like a crupper, although we introduced it slowly etc etc. I'll not try a treed saddle again until she has stopped changing shape so fast, though.

So... persevere with crupper or switch to breechin? Any thoughts from anyone who has used both?

Thanks!

Linda

PS - anyone want a 15.5 inch, Semi QH bars barrel racing model saddle, Lami-Cell so synthetic and lightweight, rather nice looking, and this tree is shorter and flatter in the bars that most western trees - apparently often fits arabs nicely - let me know if interested. I paid £427 (rrp £450) was going to ebay with starting bid of £250.... used for 30 mins.....

Hi, wow that saddle is well forward on treacle! Never saw anyone ride so high? Your boots are almost under his armpits!

After feed mules stomachs seldom swell evenly. Normally the right side sticks our more from the centre line, Making perfect saddle fitting almost pointless!

Belly c¡nches are best set at 7/8ths. 3/4 slide forward and are useless!. Almost any saddle can be modified. Normally people who don't want to do the work say it cannot be done! Also 'D' Rings for a crupper are again normally an easy mod. I usually show my students how to mod the saddle themselves. I have 2 students making their own saddle blankets this week. WE Western Riding mule owners are real practical haha!
Nick Reed at www.reedtack.com in The USA can send leather concho bases with D rings fitted, in the post. He makes great fitting breaching and other stuff specifically for mules to. His web site is a bit limited but his stock and knowledge is real good. He will also get stuff made up! He takes Visa and is blue chip reliable!

Now that seems a tad unfair, accusing poor Laura of booting Treacle in the armpit when she commented herself the saddle had slipped forward!



And I think Treacle is a she......



Tack tips always useful though - do you use rear cinches routinely for your mules in western tack?

Hi, and yes! If I am going for a serious ride, I use 2 cinch's, Breast breaching, and a crupper! It is totally fine to persevere with a crupper! Safety is best for both rider and mule! What they do not like is really irrelevant, as you know best when it comes to your and others safety in the saddle! Always persevere!

It has become modern practice to fit a full front to back breaching on Western saddle mules. When you ride Off Trail, and mules were made for it! It's best to have your saddle stay where you put it!

It's never practical to look for a 'Perfect' fit, as our animals change shape daily. For younger animals I think a treeless saddle is possibly the right way to go. BOZ saddles, manufacture a saddle on a (I THINK) polycarbonate tree? As it warms it takes the shape of the animal. 20 minits after removing the saddle it returns to it's original shape! I never liked wood saddle trees! As Boz say, a wooden saddle is for a wooden horse!

What happened to your western saddle Albert

I'm doing so wel with Malaga at present I'm hesitant to try a crupper on him.(Worried about him bucking when the pressure is put on )
Sarah-lee told me very forcefully what she thought of it when I tried one on her! A mile further on we came to a really steep incline and I'd've hated for her to start bucking there! As it was when her saddle started to undress itself over her head she just aligned herself up sideways and told me to get off and B***** well do something about it!!!!! it was after that I got breeching for her but there again if I'd persevered with the crupper.........
I just worry about the "Oow!" factor when it startes pulling against his tail,how do I prepare him for that Albie?

Hi, I found an excellent article on tack fit for mules. I thought it might be useful to you all. http://www.mammothmules.com/tackfit.html

Also, have any of you ever tried a treeless Hilason Saddle? I've heard some great things about them, though have never used one personally.

-Sharon

Hi,

Not used a Hilason, only noticed very mixed comments re quality on other forums.

The Hilason was looked on as a cheap copy of the Bob Marshel but I have heard some quite good reviews of it recently so maybe they've improved things (Or maybe the reviewers have never tried a Bob Marshel )

I am craving a Bob marshall treeless, all dolled up with square skirts, no trail strings and lots of silver to be Moon's show saddle, assuming we stick with Plan A which was getting her western established first and add the English later. We are considering just going English with her which might just suit her busy little brain (well, busy big brain) better... we will see after her holiday what her brain is up to once she has matured a bit and ready for a little more work.

I could lend you Malaga's to try out on her when she comes to Malvern again.It's n ot one of the fancy ones just an endurance but you could see if you like it.
Why would English be better for her busy mind? There are so many things to do in Western!

I'm not to sure if any one reads what I write, but I am finding different people attitudes and approaches very interesting! You see I was never trained to equines! I basically tought myself and was into my 3rd mule before I knew their were clinicians and DVD's!

My point is It never OCCURED to me that a mule' or the 2 horses (A Cob & and a Real Appy), I owned, or the 2 crazy horses we rescued were ever going to Volunteer to lay down and let me apply any piece of tack I fancied! It didn't Matter! So I just got on and intro'd each animal to the tack I had for them, took what ever time was required, and each one from NO Experience, Green Broke, to Old time done it, been there mules, rode out just the way I trained them to! The idea that one might make a fuse seems neither here not there!

When it comes to saddles I never had one that fitted perfectly! But I never had a mule that was the same shape as another. Also I have never had an animal that I made sore or scared, and reading your messages I have had a hundred, and them some, more mules than any of you! I don't know if any of you are really interested in anything I have to say, but it does seem to me that if you want to do the best for your mule and get the best out of your mule spend time with people who really know mules! Albert

I think there are many ways to skin a cat

Effectiveness in what one can achieve with horse/mules/dogs is one thing, and it is important. Learning from those who have a track record of proven effectiveness is extremely useful.

At the same time, nobody knows everything, and as research into equine behaviour, health and physiology in the widest sense continues, new things come to light that, shared and adapted to real life situations, can also be useful.

So, for example, Albert, I find your observations on tack very interesting, and I register very carefully. I notice specifically, however, that in your opinion your have never had a perfect fitting saddle and never knowingly had any problems with sore backs.

I also register recent research presented at an equine veterinary convention in Florida, a study of sports massage versus chiropracter versus nothing specific in managing horses with potential back pain, the interesting bit being that the assumption from the very start of the study that ALL ridden horses have subclinical back pain.

I also read widely and note that in many fairly traditional books and indeed some US magazine articles on western riding (I only get MUles & More for the mules, but Western Rider, Equus, Horse Illustrated, the US Horse & Rider, and the Horse are the others) the definition of bad saddle fit - start to worry if your horse gets white bits - is appalling.

So to me the challenge now, is to try to ensure that by choosing ride my equines, I strive to ensure the experience is pain free for them. If it isn't, well the ethics of that are very tricky - last time I looked it was not ethical to cause pain to an animal for human pleasure - any yet now veterinary experts are starting their baseline studies with the assumptions that all ridden horses have some degree of discomfort.

So - having saddles that do not shift, is not the only criteria I will have.

Which is a long way of saying, I suppose, that comments implying that none of us are listening to the one member of this forum who has had dozens more mules than the rest of us put together - which is almost certainly true - is not terribly helpful in a group environment.

One person does not have a monopoly on knowing everything. It does make that persons experience - and willingness to share it - very valuable and gratefully received. It does not mean that person is always right.

There are now many people in this group who between them have decades of experience with various equines, and at the end of the day mules are half horse, and as donkeys and horses share a helluva lot of genes, there's plenty of stuff (especially when it comes to physiology and management) that is basically very similar with an appropriate degree of adaptation for the donkey parent.

So let us all learn from each other, accept cheerfully that there will be plenty of things we don't all agree on, take suggestions in the helpful manner they are intended and not throw our toys out if someone continues to explore a topic upon which we have given our tuppence worth



best wishes

Linda

I think albert is right! I know his work, and what he does! I'm fortunate that I live where mules can be seen in un sophisticated surroundings whoops big word for me it can be terrible cold, and meltingly hot! either way the saddle has to fit, and a baticola (crupper is essential. No rolling green meadows here! so if its a mule or a horse it gets one! Mules and horses get spoiled and fussy just like people God I would have to be stupid to have a horse or mule that would not let ME fit what ever i wanted to it albert the grapevine tells me your teaching mule driving at tracy James is Natural Horse Riding Centre. You thought I didnt know that! Kate.................